9.15.2001
On another note, it seems that america finds herself in a bit of a Catch 22 with regards to responding to this terrorism. On the one hand, without some significant response to these crimes, other terrorists may consider us an easy target for terrorists attacks. Then too, if retaliation is given, new haters of the united states are created by the thousand. Not only that, but americans become no more free, as they find themselves in a war situation, with fewer civil liberties and the constant possibility of the draft. On top of this, Afghanistan has promised to retaliate if we take action against them. If they find allies in the middle east, not only will this situation rapidly escalate, but we will find ourselves without oil (it seems trivial, but it's important). But if we don't retaliate, who pays for this crime? say so many americans. IF we retaliate, innocents will die. If we don't, one could well argue that, through further terrorism, more innocent americans will die. Perhaps a right answer might be to stop so many people from hating americans. But, is that possible? It seems quite possible that it may be too late. I see no way to "solve" this situation without huge consequences. For me, that is part of what is so terrifying, that no course of action can possibly be "right". But yet, america must take action. So what do you do in a Catch 22, with a nation crying for war and blood?
posted by Jane @ 8:13:00 PM
Wow, i just read all the blog comments back through wednesday, and i guess i have couple points or something to make.
First, I would like to agree with emi and whoever it was (maybe emily) who said it before her that an excessive emphasis has been placed on the idea of prayer in the time following tuesday's tragedy. Yesterday, i know that i, for one, was hurt by introduction beginning the montgomery county program surrounding the moment of silence. Words of welcome were addressed to "Christians, muslims, jews (cheering) and people of all faiths". I felt (and do feel) upset and excluded from the mourning of our nation by the religious nature of this mourning. Although I know that, officially, friday was a day of "prayer and rememberance", and i believe, was always reffered to as such, the emphasis that has been but on prayer and its importance , i feel, serves, instead of unity our country, to exclude the many atheists, agnostics and the like who are still deeply affected by this tragedy and would wish to join in the greiving of our nation. I sincerely wish that i were able to pray, particularly in the midst of such horrible events, but, for me, it is not an option, it is not possible for me. Though I have, or at least attempt to always have, a respect for those who can believe, i am unable to, but yet, i still mourn. However, i do not feel the same level of one-ness with my country which i wish i could, and think i might feel if only i did not sense my exclusion from it by virtue of being non-religious. By making what could easily have been an occasion of "rememberance and contemplation", or some other non-religious occasion, into a day of prayer, i feel more alienated from my country, and hurt by this. President Bush, in my eyes, has made a mistake by placing his comforts to our country in relgious form, and constantly turning emphasizing the importance of prayer. In some ways, it is even harder to experience something like this with out the belief of a relgious person. Without faith, no reason for such horrible events can be found. Perhaps it seems that i'm nit picking at a time when it is simply unneccessary, and if it doesn't, i am sorry, but to me it is very important, and i do wish that those who wish to could be allowed by this country to mourn and greive without prayer.
First, I would like to agree with emi and whoever it was (maybe emily) who said it before her that an excessive emphasis has been placed on the idea of prayer in the time following tuesday's tragedy. Yesterday, i know that i, for one, was hurt by introduction beginning the montgomery county program surrounding the moment of silence. Words of welcome were addressed to "Christians, muslims, jews (cheering) and people of all faiths". I felt (and do feel) upset and excluded from the mourning of our nation by the religious nature of this mourning. Although I know that, officially, friday was a day of "prayer and rememberance", and i believe, was always reffered to as such, the emphasis that has been but on prayer and its importance , i feel, serves, instead of unity our country, to exclude the many atheists, agnostics and the like who are still deeply affected by this tragedy and would wish to join in the greiving of our nation. I sincerely wish that i were able to pray, particularly in the midst of such horrible events, but, for me, it is not an option, it is not possible for me. Though I have, or at least attempt to always have, a respect for those who can believe, i am unable to, but yet, i still mourn. However, i do not feel the same level of one-ness with my country which i wish i could, and think i might feel if only i did not sense my exclusion from it by virtue of being non-religious. By making what could easily have been an occasion of "rememberance and contemplation", or some other non-religious occasion, into a day of prayer, i feel more alienated from my country, and hurt by this. President Bush, in my eyes, has made a mistake by placing his comforts to our country in relgious form, and constantly turning emphasizing the importance of prayer. In some ways, it is even harder to experience something like this with out the belief of a relgious person. Without faith, no reason for such horrible events can be found. Perhaps it seems that i'm nit picking at a time when it is simply unneccessary, and if it doesn't, i am sorry, but to me it is very important, and i do wish that those who wish to could be allowed by this country to mourn and greive without prayer.
posted by Jane @ 8:05:00 PM
I think the point of divergence here among us is simply whether there has been/can ever be a necessary war. As I recall, when Congress voted to enter the Great War, Jeanette Rankin was one of the only dissenters. I believe that was an unnecessary war. I don't know how the vote was split, if it was, for WWII, or for Vietnam. There were no dissenters this time. I don't know how to interpret current events for the future.
posted by dyts @ 9:00:00 AM
Today in the Post, even more thorny issues:
China's censors have been moved to stem anti-American statements and expressions of support for terrorism against the United States that have been posted on government-monitored Internet sites...
posted by dyts @ 8:23:00 AM
China's censors have been moved to stem anti-American statements and expressions of support for terrorism against the United States that have been posted on government-monitored Internet sites...
posted by dyts @ 8:23:00 AM
That's what I took away from Mr. Hines' discussion, too, Jess. However, there is a definite distinction between the statement, "We will, inevitably, end up killing innocents, should we go to war," which was what Mr. Hines was saying, and "We should kill innocents," which I didn't hear from anyone besides maybe Justin Holdahl and Stan (and which I believe appalled everyone else).
posted by dyts @ 7:45:00 AM
Actually, I was thinking just that during the service, Emily and Joe, about the difference between prayer and remembrance. I think people do recognize the difference, and that's why there were both words in the name. And whenever I heard someone say the name on TV it was always with both words together.
posted by dyts @ 7:38:00 AM
9.13.2001
I maintain that while hatred is understandable and perhaps justified in this case, there is no reason to be ashamed that you do not hate someone else, Paul. In any circumstances. I remember an article from the Post about a man whose daughter was killed in the Oklahoma City bombing who came to weep with McVeigh's father, came to be friends with him, and campaigned against the death penalty for McVeigh. There were others like him. What haunts me is the account of how when the victim's father first came to the elder McVeigh's house, he saw a photograph of Tim McVeigh from high school and said, without thinking, "What a beautiful kid."
posted by dyts @ 4:57:00 PM
Plotz has voiced a number of excellent ideas. I would, however, like to bring up the following points:
Afghanistan resistance to the Taliban regime still continues in the north (you probably have heard about the recent bombing in Kabul). While not specifically referring to any of you around here, plenty of Americans seem to think that nuking Afghanistan would "do the trick." If it isn't already obvious, that is an obscenely bad idea.
On going to war: If the U.S. did in fact find bin Laden to be behind Tuesday's attacks and declared war on Afghanistan, it would have to be a damn quick one. One of the major reasons for the enslavement of women in Afghanistan is the decades-long civil war that took place until the Taliban restored order, or something like it. (Example: ruthlessly destroying opium production so actual food products could actually stand a chance of being grown.) Obviously, so, so very many men were killed during the war that were the main supports of their households. Of course, the Taliban finished the deal by essentially burying Afghan women alive. However, if a war with Afghanistan dragged on (wars tend to), even more people than the thousands upon hundreds of thousands upon perhaps a million innocents dying of starvation now, or until recently, in Afghanistan (I believe international aid has helped stem the tidal wave of deaths somewhat) would suffer even more in ways I personally can't get my mind around, including, of course, those unfortunate women.
Afghanistan resistance to the Taliban regime still continues in the north (you probably have heard about the recent bombing in Kabul). While not specifically referring to any of you around here, plenty of Americans seem to think that nuking Afghanistan would "do the trick." If it isn't already obvious, that is an obscenely bad idea.
On going to war: If the U.S. did in fact find bin Laden to be behind Tuesday's attacks and declared war on Afghanistan, it would have to be a damn quick one. One of the major reasons for the enslavement of women in Afghanistan is the decades-long civil war that took place until the Taliban restored order, or something like it. (Example: ruthlessly destroying opium production so actual food products could actually stand a chance of being grown.) Obviously, so, so very many men were killed during the war that were the main supports of their households. Of course, the Taliban finished the deal by essentially burying Afghan women alive. However, if a war with Afghanistan dragged on (wars tend to), even more people than the thousands upon hundreds of thousands upon perhaps a million innocents dying of starvation now, or until recently, in Afghanistan (I believe international aid has helped stem the tidal wave of deaths somewhat) would suffer even more in ways I personally can't get my mind around, including, of course, those unfortunate women.
posted by dyts @ 4:44:00 PM
9.12.2001
I think the section below the map on this page, the description of the ethnic cleansing of the Sudetenland, is worth reading. And somewhat thematically linked to yesterday's events.
posted by dyts @ 4:40:00 PM
I saw what you changed the title to and I remembered the poem I read on Monday about Fortinbras' lament for Hamlet and I started crying and crying and crying. Last night I couldn't sleep until 5 in the morning, and when I slept I dreamed of seas of fire. Please consider making a financial donation to the Red Cross as well as giving blood. Since, as the page states, the online donor form is experiencing heavy traffic, there are also alternative methods of making a donation listed. You can call 1-800 GIVE LIFE to become a blood donor or 1-800 HELP NOW to donate money.
I don't pray to feel good. I pray so that I am still more torn by anguish and feel still more keenly the pain of those who suffer. And yet it's nothing at all compared to what they feel. That's all we can do, other than what's been mentioned.
I don't pray to feel good. I pray so that I am still more torn by anguish and feel still more keenly the pain of those who suffer. And yet it's nothing at all compared to what they feel. That's all we can do, other than what's been mentioned.
posted by dyts @ 1:47:00 PM
American Red Cross in California (and Frederick County) has the requirements for blood donors. "To donate blood, you should be in good health, be at least 17 years of age, and weigh at least 110 pounds. You can donate blood every 56 days. Provided you are in good health there is no upper age limit." I recall someone (you, Sims?) had a bit of trouble with bleeding after the RM blood drive in February, so here are some more recommendations:
"Increase your fluid intake for the next 24 to 48 hours.
Avoid strenuous physical exertion, heavy lifting or pulling with the donation arm for about five hours.
Eat well balanced meals for the next 24 hours.
People seldom experience discomfort after donating. However, if you feel light-headed, lie down until the feeling passes. If some bleeding occurs after removal of the bandage, apply pressure to the site and raise your arm for three to five minutes. If bruising or bleeding appears under the skin, apply a cold pack periodically to the bruised area during the first 24 hours, then warm, moist heat intermittently."
"Increase your fluid intake for the next 24 to 48 hours.
Avoid strenuous physical exertion, heavy lifting or pulling with the donation arm for about five hours.
Eat well balanced meals for the next 24 hours.
People seldom experience discomfort after donating. However, if you feel light-headed, lie down until the feeling passes. If some bleeding occurs after removal of the bandage, apply pressure to the site and raise your arm for three to five minutes. If bruising or bleeding appears under the skin, apply a cold pack periodically to the bruised area during the first 24 hours, then warm, moist heat intermittently."
posted by dyts @ 1:22:00 AM
Absolutely, Joe. The sad fact is that there is no clear way to prevent these attacks.
Those of us who pray, please pray for the victims' families and survivors suffering now.
Those of us who pray, please pray for the victims' families and survivors suffering now.
posted by dyts @ 12:49:00 AM
9.11.2001
Hum, just listened to Bush talking about how we are going to get them, whoever. And, harboring whoever did this (in his words), is the same thing as commiting these acts. (paraphrase) So I see something that doesn't get called war, but is anyhow. Or at least the serious squishing of a country. Maybe Afganistan? I never could spell it anyhow. If the last message didn't post right, for everyone who doesn't know yet, school is closed for tommorrow, so I'll see you all thursday, at best. So, yeah.
posted by Jane @ 8:52:00 PM
Um, just for anyone who doesn't know yet, school is closed for tommorrow. so see you all thursday,at best.
posted by Jane @ 8:47:00 PM
9.09.2001
There's a program that can do that for you, too. I've set my watch to that as well.
posted by dyts @ 6:55:00 PM